Inside Penguin – live webchat TODAY

The copywriters – Sam Binnie, Colin Brush, Sarah Kettle and Louise Willder – will be here today between 1 and 2pm to answer your questions about what they do at Penguin: the first in a series of live Q&As to give you a behind-the-scenes look at how publishing really works. We’ll be responding to the questions you’ve already asked, and answering any new questions you have in the comments section, so get posting below.

Comments

[Gary]

Hi, just would like to remind someone maybe they can push for the corrected Finnegans Wake to be published in America. An eBook PDF so one can read it and easily reference page numbers like print would be also be very helpful for anyone that tries to really work with the text.

[Sam the Copywriter]

Hello everyone!

Welcome to our livechat. Join us here until 2pm with your questions and our answers.

[Soops77]

Hi there, I have two questions;

1. Are are any trends in subject matter for both fiction and non fiction that you've noticed in books being published in this quarter?

2. Do you need an English degree to be a copywriter?

[Sam the Copywriter]

There may be a tiiiiiiny delay, as it seems none of us can work the internet. Lesson 1 of being a copywriter: stay away from the internet.

[Hannah]

Hello,

I'll ask possibly the most obvious question: how did you become a copywriter, and were there any qualifications you needed or ones that helped you land the job?

[Louise the copywriter]

Hi Chris Grey:

'When you are writing blurb for a book, do you always read the book first? (Please be honest!) And then: is there a checklist for writing the best blurb? Can you count it down for us? Thanks.'

The answer is a diplomatic yes and no - it entirely depends on the book you're working on. For fiction, especially classics, I try and read as much as possible, as I don't want to make a huge clanger or give away too much, and also we put quotations from the text on our Penguin Classics black jackets, so some reading is needed! Most of us admit, though, that for non-fiction we will generally read less, as you're not strictly telling a story in your copy. But I'll always have a good look at the introduction, last chapter and index to get as much of a flavour as I can of a book's contents. The loveliest part of our job, by far, is getting to read at work! Louise

[Saumya Tewari]

What are the essential tips you would give to a just starting out copywriter, who is working in an agency which deals majorly in government sector products and services where there is not much scope for creativity and fantasy like other commercial products?

[Sarah K]

Aside from the obvious rules (Be unique, catchy, and clear) what are the most important things to consider when crafting a title.

Hello, this is Sarah - I would say tone and voice are particularly key. You want to give a flavour of what's inside - without giving too much away - hook the reader in from the opening line and leave them wanting more.

[Colin]

'Hello! Where did you begin working before getting into your current role as a copywriter?' - Sarah Baldwin

Hi Sarah

I went the old-fashioned route. Left college with a largely useless degree, got a job in a bookshop chain (which no longer exists), went from there to BCA (book clubs - largely defunct now) and from there to Penguin.

The key thing, I think, is to get into a company that works in the area you want to work in. My skills as a bookseller got me a job as a stock controller at BCA. From that position I become a proof reader and then a copywriter. Once you are in a company it is often fairly easy to move around if you determined, willing and prepared to be patient.

[Sam the Copywriter]

How did you get into publishing? And is it necessary to do work experience? If so how do I do that?

Posted by: Abbie

Thanks Abbie. I got into publishing from a job I hated at a well-known estate agent. I quit my job there after I got a two-week work experience placement in the marketing department here, which just happened to be at the same time as somebody was leaving. My work experience became a temp job, my temp job became permanent, and I crawled my way up the corporate ladder, by tooth and nail, to become a Copywriter. Here I am! On rung two of the corporate ladder.

I would really recommend work experience here - not only is everyone lovely, but I think it's an eye-opener for people who think it's just a job for anyone who wants to read all day. That's my job, and I'm not giving it up. Elsewhere in the company, there are people who sell books, market them, design the covers, sign the authors... And everyone needs to get their hands dirty at the beginning to find out what publishing is really about.

Details of work experience, here:
http://bit.ly/eEKI7a

[Matt]

I'd like to second Hannah's question as nobody seems to know how to get into copywriting. Many job ads don't require qualifications, yet when I've applied I've had no response.

[Raindrop_dr]

Hello!
What is your typical day like? - Raindrop

[DanielS]

How many times do you get wrong before you reach something that everyone is happy with?

[Louise the copywriter]

"E-books don't have a back cover, how does this affect your blurb?
Posted by: Middle_Innes"

Good question. E-books are currently a small but extremely fast-growing area of the market, and publishing companies are doing their best to keep on top of the latest developments in technology. In terms of our jobs, we don't see the book dying in the near future, and so hope that copywriters and book designers can keep on trying to make each physical book as unique as possible. But it's something we definitely can't ignore. One of the things we're trying to do is to make sure that all our copy that goes on websites - amazon, apple etc - is as good as the copy that we put on our books. Catherine Jebson - I hope this answers your question too!
Louise

[Sam the Copywriter]

Hello, what qualifications do you need to become a copywriter?

Posted by: Gabriele

Hi Gabriele!

When it comes to qualifications, we all have very mixed degrees (English; English & Marketing; Classical Civilization; Geology and Applied Geology)(YEAH - you heard me) and no other particular formal qualifications. But we are all huge readers, and were able to demonstrate the ability to write for different tone of voice - the most key aspect of the job, as well as making any book sound brilliant, I suppose.

Puffin picture books, Jeremy Clarkson comic non-fiction, Niall Ferguson history and a new translation of Madame Bovary all require such different tones in the copy, and that's the skill you need for this job.

[Melinda]

Can you ever quit the job or you're making up blurbs even when you're reading for your own entertainment on the beach for example? :)

[Colin]

'Aside from the obvious rules (Be unique, catchy, and clear) what are the most important things to consider when crafting a title.' - Isaiahjc

Hi Isaiahjc

Always think about the audience and the genre of the title. What kind of thing will appeal most to your audience? Also, you want to be as true to the work as possible. You must also make sure that the book delivers on the title's promise.

[Louise the copywriter]

"Which books that you've worked on had the most difficult blurb or title to write?
Posted by: Ruth"

Such a tricky question! Sometimes the more commercial a book is - i.e. the more copies we want to sell! - more people will become involved in the jacket process, and so often our job becomes one of trying to compromise between different viewpoints, so that's often quite a challenge. Sometimes it can be hard because of a particular brief - for example, a blurb I wrote a couple of years ago for The Canterbury Tales, where the brief was to make a 14th century work relevant to a modern audience. That was pretty hard.
Louise

[Sam the Copywriter]

Hello!
What is your typical day like? - Raindrop

Posted by: Raindrop_dr

Hi Raindrop.

Our days all really vary, but mine days are generally: get in, check email, check the Classics twitter feed to see if anyone's asked any questions, sweep my six piles of head-high books to one side to make space for my hands to reach the keyboard. Then I might be reading, contacting authors and editors with proposed copy or copy amends, having meetings about TOP SECRET AND EXCITING projects that we work on all the time, writing more tweets on the Classics feed or copy for the Classics newsletter and website, finding quotes from reviews for ad campaigns or the book jackets themselves, writing internal emails about projects and books we're working on, checking jackets to see the right copy is on there, or discussing our creative ideas for online and offline campaigns in the future.

We are busy, busy people.

[Colin]

'I've recently become aware of more extreme "gawk abuse" online - premium sites vying for attention and many other upstarts exploit the absurd (often using deceptive ambiguity) and human inquisitiveness. How do you see this affecting good honest copy within an attention grabbing race to the bottom in this information overload generation ? How can simple quality stand out and stand up for itself ? Is the "made-you-look" device a fair tool for the copywriter ?' - Greg Smith

Hi Greg

I think the bottom line is you must always deliver on your promises. If you're going to make a bold statement you better follow it up well. If you don't or can't your credibility will plummet.

[Louise the copywriter]

"What's your source for inspiration?
Posted by: Melinda"

Like most people, I often don't have my best ideas sitting at my desk, and sometimes ideas for a blurb or shoutline will pop into my head when I'm on the tube or doing something completely different from work. All of us copywriters take inspiration from the words around us - in advertising, in the media, online. We also meet and look at each other's work every week and comment on it, which is a great way to swap ideas and keep our work feeling fresh. Oh, and of course, the book itself is often the best source of inspiration too,
Louise

[Sarah K]

Do you have to agree copy with the authors and, if so, how often does that spiral into disagreement?

Oh - and do badly written emails irritate you?

I always discuss my Puffin blurbs with the author - it's their book so it's important they are consulted and can offer their opinion. Sometimes a blurb is approved immediately, sometimes there's a bit of back and forth, but it's never spiralled into a full-blown disagreement! As for badly written emails, Sam says emoticons make her want to kill someone and for me, bad spelling and text language in emails makes me want to weep. In fact text language in text messages makes me want to weep.

[Bob]

Do you work freelance or are you on the staff of Penguin?

[Samara]

Can take us through a typical day in the life of a copywriter

[Sam the Copywriter]

From twitter:
@rd_morgan

My ?s: do you ever laugh at how often certain words are used in bk descriptions? What are words you find you use often?

Hello!

We all liked this question very much, and laughed just thinking about it. From our different divisions, the words that seem to crop up a LOT are:

magisterial
tour-de-force
masterful
luminous
epic
exploring/discussing/examining
unforgettable

There's actually a great website here that unpicks all this stuff: but I can't find it. I just tried to google it and came up with loads of SEO-copy websites, which made me cry.

But you have to feel for us - so many thousands of books are published each year, and we only have a few hundred 'powerful' words to try and get across how brilliant our titles are. Don't fear the magisterial! It probably means it's a really, really good book.

[Louise the copywriter]

"What are the essential tips you would give to a just starting out copywriter, who is working in an agency which deals majorly in government sector products and services where there is not much scope for creativity and fantasy like other commercial products?
Posted by: Saumya Tewari"

Hi Saumya,
If you're just starting out, then my advice would be to use your current position to learn as much as you can about the craft of copywriting. Being clear, creative and clever with words is a skill that can apply to writing about anything, whether it's toothpaste, government services or books! One of the best copywriting courses I ever went on had us rewriting terrible local government advertisements and brochures. It's such an enjoyable challenge to write well and get information across in the best (and most accurate) way possible, so I would just try and hone your skills as much as possible,
Louise

[Colin]

'How many times do you get wrong before you reach something that everyone is happy with?' - Daniel S

'Which books that you've worked on had the most difficult blurb or title to write?' - Ruth

Well, about two years ago I worked on the paperback copy for Nick Hornby's Juliet, Naked. The editor didn't like it. So I did it again. And again. And again. And on my day off I had another stab it. And again when I got back into work. About eight weeks and twenty-one versions later it was cracked. And so was I.

[Melinda]

As a Hungarian with experience as a social media marketing assistant in book publishing and reader (deciding what books to publish in Hungarian) and editor (so far for friends only) do I have a chance to get hired in the UK publishing world?

[Louise the copywriter]

"Do you work freelance or are you on the staff of Penguin?
Posted by: Bob"

Hi Bob, we're permanent staff members, which is actually quite unusual, as most publishing companies don't employ full-time copywriters but might use freelancers instead. Penguin have always considered good blurbs as a valuable part of the marketing process, so they give them slightly special treatment,
Louise

[Sam the Copywriter]

Can you ever quit the job or you're making up blurbs even when you're reading for your own entertainment on the beach for example? :)

Posted by: Melinda

Thanks Melinda.

Louise the Copywriter says she is EXACTLY like Cameron Diaz in the film The Holiday (it's actually eerie how much she looks like her. Spooky) and can never really turn off that brain.

While we may not always be writing blurbs in our heads, we definitely are hyper-critical about copy we see elsewhere: in our weekly Friday Copywriters catch-up we often talk about great copy we've seen, or truly dire copy that makes NO SENSE. The worst copy crimes that really strike us (not to sound all Lynne Truss-y) are generally set-ups that don't deliver, like the punchline/sell-line has just been crow-barred in with no thought for the whole concept. Or ads that are glaringly missing a dash, comma or fullstop. AAAH. Or ads (for books or otherwise) that are riffing off a previous successful idea, but do it with zero charm and only serve to show how good the original idea was.

Did anyone else notice last year that there were *three* TV spots with men dressed as fish running the marathon? That was weird.

Anyway, yes, we do always think about copy all the time. Sometimes at home, I will scream out loud at a terrible copyline (again, on a book or an ad). That can't be a good sign, can it? But can you imagine how great the birthday cards we write are?

[Emma]

It seems that, as with most industries, the world of Publishing is becoming increasingly competitive and difficult to break into. Would you say that a Bachelors degree is still enough, or is it becoming more of a necessity to have a relevant postgraduate qualification as well? I imagine that work experience is the most valuable of all, but everyone is fighting for the same places and jobs are becoming scarcer by the day!

[Sarah K]

How many times do you get wrong before you reach something that everyone is happy with?

Hi Daniel

Good question. It really varies from book to book. Some blurbs can take an age to perfect - you may think you've nailed it, but the author or Editor may want it to say/do something totally different, and then you're back to square one. But that's the process, and on a tricky one it's a great feeling when it fiiiiinally gets a unanimous yes.

[Uma]

As already asked above, I'd love to know what a typical day is like. Also, what are the best and the hardest parts of your job?

[Ben]

Decent copy is valuable. If you were not flogging books, how would you use way with words?

[Louise the copywriter]

"It seems that, as with most industries, the world of Publishing is becoming increasingly competitive and difficult to break into. Would you say that a Bachelors degree is still enough, or is it becoming more of a necessity to have a relevant postgraduate qualification as well? I imagine that work experience is the most valuable of all, but everyone is fighting for the same places and jobs are becoming scarcer by the day!
Posted by: Emma"

Hi Emma, our unanimous response is No - you definitely do not need a postgraduate qualification to get into publishing. It is tough, but we're all agreed that a genuine love of books, wide reading and a passion for words can get you so much further in publishing than a couple of years of extra study. As you've guessed, work experience is usually the most valuable way of getting your foot in the door, and good people really shine. Don't waste your money on extra study! (unless someone else is paying for it, obviously, then it might just be a nice thing to do anyway..)

[Colin]

'Can take us through a typical day in the life of a copywriter

Posted by: Samara '

Hi Samara

Here's how I do a book blurb for a paperback of a previously published hardback/trade paperback (the bread and butter of my job):

I read all the reviews in the papers and collate the positive comments to use as quotes. If it has been widely reviewed I should have a very good sense of what the book is about. I will also read a sample of the book (if it is a book that has not been published I will read as much of it as I can - if time is very short the first fifty pages and the last fifty pages are great way to get a sense of characters and plot). Then I speak to the editor and get a brief. Sometimes this is very specific and leaves very little option as to how to approach the copy; at other times the brief might be wide open (in which case I might do more than one version). After that I write the blurb, combine with any quotes and present it to the editor. Whereupon I might receive clucks of approval, have it torn up in front of me (yes, that did happen once). After that, it goes to the author. And once we have approval there it goes to the art department, who'll probably complain that it is too long, or say there are too many quotes, or can I just take out the last sentence, please? Once the copy is on the cover it does the rounds of marketing, editorial and sales and is signed off by the MD. And sometimes its back on your desk with a post-it note saying something to the effect of 'who wrote this rubbish?'. And we start again ...

[Sam the Copywriter]

for a customer browsing in a book store, compelling well-written book flap copy is crucial in selling the book.

but with digital books, there is far less browsing.

how do publishers make sure great copy and book covers do not go the way of liner notes and album covers?

Posted by: deirdre donahue

Hi Deirdre.

As eBooks become a bigger slice of the market, we will keep our eye on where our copy goes and how it's formatted. At the moment, in the division I work in, lots of our books are so incredibly beautiful that they are utter works of art which people enjoy holding and owning (Coralie Bickford-Smith's Great Foods http://bit.ly/dZhF40, Stef Posavec's Bovary http://bit.ly/pQOnFn, Jim Stoddart's Evelyn Waugh range http://bit.ly/mW1Tts, to name but a few).

Obviously we can't ignore the market, so we will do lovely exciting things online as well as off, but I'm particularly interested in people like Visual Editions, recognising the physicality of the book and its intrinsic worth.

When it comes to copy, though, at the moment - online or off - the books still need copy and we are working hard with online people to make sure our copy appears in the best way possible. We're still working with the same words - just reconsidering the format they're read in, just as copy in hardback formats and paperback formats differ quite a bit.

[Emma]

"Hi Emma, our unanimous response is No - you definitely do not need a postgraduate qualification to get into publishing. It is tough, but we're all agreed that a genuine love of books, wide reading and a passion for words can get you so much further in publishing than a couple of years of extra study. As you've guessed, work experience is usually the most valuable way of getting your foot in the door, and good people really shine. Don't waste your money on extra study! (unless someone else is paying for it, obviously, then it might just be a nice thing to do anyway..)"

Whew! My crippled student overdraft just about managed a sigh of relief. When you look to people who have become extremely successful in life, their qualifications rarely seem to have played a part, but you can just feel a bit "without a paddle" in this job market! I'll just have to try my best to get a foot in the door. Thanks for the advice!

[Phillip Morton]

What is the best way for a writer to become recognised as an author?

[Louise the copywriter]

"As already asked above, I'd love to know what a typical day is like. Also, what are the best and the hardest parts of your job?
Posted by: Uma"

Hi Uma, as Colin and Sam have already described their dream days I shall refrain. Best parts of the job - seeing your words on a book cover, obviously. Sometimes I even follow people around in bookshops when I see they're reading a blurb I wrote, staring at them pointedly. Also getting to read at work. The worst? It's generally a pretty nice job, I have to admit, but it can be tricky rewriting and rewriting copy. The same goes for subtitles and straplines on books. Often these can be really hard, as the person asking you to write the line sometimes doesn't really know what they want, apart from a magic silver bullet that will sum up every nuance of the work in one sentence, make it sound "like that book on so-and-so, but not that", and make it a bestseller! Louise

[Sarah K]

As already asked above, I'd love to know what a typical day is like. Also, what are the best and the hardest parts of your job?

Hi Uma - one of the best things is there is no typical day. My job involves writing blurbs, writing copy for posters, flyers, book trailers, TV ads, radio scripts, the Puffin website etc, and the range of books (from The Very Hungry Caterpillar to Vampire Academy) means I'm constantly thinking about a huge variety of audiences. One of the hardest things can be conjuring the perfect strapline, seriously, sometimes that pesky one-liner takes longer to write than a whole blurb (you can't see me but I'm scowling). One of the best things was re-branding Roald Dahl - one day I worked from home and re-read The BFG and drank tea and spent hours thinking about frobscottle and Matilda and Willy Wonka and James Henry Trotter's parents being eaten by a rhinoceros and George's grizzly grouch of a grandma. That was a GREAT day.

[Colin]

'What's your source for inspiration?

Posted by: Melinda'

Books, words, stories. Read. A lot. Poetry is great - thought I don't read nearly as much as I should or I should like to.

I think you need to have a fascination with stories. What makes them tick? What are the hooks? It's that JJ Abrams thing - What's in the box?

The blurb and the rest of the book passage need to create that sense of excitement that a really good story delivers. Mystery, suspense and excitement are emotions that you want to tap into, I think.

I often think back to my childhood when so much of the world was a wonderous place (not so apparently commonplace as it appears to adults) and you want to deliver that sense of excitement and wonder and enthusiasm.

Basically, be a big kid about it.

[Sam the Copywriter]

Do you have to agree copy with the authors and, if so, how often does that spiral into disagreement?

Oh - and do badly written emails irritate you?

Posted by: T-Bone

Dearest T-Bone,

We do indeed have to agree copy with authors. One of the nicest things in my job is getting back emails from authors that I've looked up to for years, or only known as the name on a worthy tome, and finding they are chatty, sweet and helpful. That's actually *brilliant*. I could name names here, but I wouldn't like to forget someone and cause a publishing rift.

Generally, they are very co-operative - they recognise that we are specialists in this field, and we want to sell their book as much as they do. Once in a blue moon, they might have a very different idea to both us and the editor about where the book will be placed in the market, and that can be tricky but never impossible.

A major delight is thinking 'I might just chance my arm with this slightly negative/critical quote', and the author totally getting what I was trying to do. On the new Madame Bovary, I proposed 'The least romantic book I have ever read... One of the greatest novels of all time' from A. S. Byatt, just to add some punch and stand-out to the new translation, and the author approved it. I was pretty overjoyed.

And yes. Badly written emails irritate me.

[Colin]

'Decent copy is valuable. If you were not flogging books, how would you use way with words?

Posted by: Ben'

Hi Ben

Probably by writing threatening letters to institutions or people in high places.

Penguin hires copywriters as a care in the community service.

That way our powers can only be used for good.

[Sam the Copywriter]

Yeah, I agree with Colin. It's safest to keep us off the streets.

Thanks for your questions, everyone!

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